broadwell was a young officer who worked for me about a decade ago and she's just immensely gifted, bright, talented fit, a great representative, the very best our nation brings forward and so you had these two incredibly gifted folks and they make a human frailty, but at the end of the day, leadership's all about competence, and character, and in the case of david petraeus, no one, no one would challenge his competence. that's a matter of record, but at the end of the day his character indicated a bit of a frailty, and he -- i would suspect he probably didn't have somebody whisper in his ear, look, boss, you know, all glory is fleeting here and the rules apply to everybody which clearly they do and sadly we have two careers that are now in a bit of a tailspin. i think it's safe to say. >> um-hum. you know both of them, and i'm pretty sure it's your sense, you were shocked by this. >> terribly shocked. let me start with paula.